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Open Lore Questions - Whats your opinion


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Posted (edited)

Hello!

This place is for talking about some lore ideas that are not official Bethesda lore but seem fitting well.

) what do you think about the nordic name of a Thrall (Slaves), and what about the Godi (jarls /kins druid)
both are real world names, and like the term "Shieldbrother" and "Jarl" could be used in the same analogy inside the plot of Skyrim Mods.
Thoughts?
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/qgb1daerv6box2yikc18-signature-0f6837fb0f6caff06ee73ca91cd012788537db924fe449abcb2a7add4ea56262-poli-140729182512-phpapp02/95/viking-social-structure-2-638.jpg?cb=1406658344
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/society/text/social_classes.htm

Edited by Hannes821

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Posted

Hello Hannes821,

I'm a great fan of variety and I think, this is a good idea, if you use these titles consequently in a certain region and only for this region. But these titles bear often different functions as our translation today into ruler or king or carl. So the godi where at first hands priests and at second sometimes rulers or chieftains, but not necessarily. In the early times there was no difference between ruler and priest, both functions were included in one person. Later on they split these functions, but mostley the godi had the last word over decisions of the ruler.

Wikipedia has that of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothi

I think, if you keep the differences clear and consequent, this will add some nice realistic variety to your mod.

Greeting, Tasheni

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Posted

i saw, nice!
now, we cannot copy 100% real world names in game content, both because they are somewhat ambivalent regarding their historical context as Tasheni pointed out (thank you!),
and because also game content should not be a simple copy of real world thinks.

However, like Bethesda, i like the idea of having Synonyms with "about" the same basic meaning (Walhalla=Sovengarde)
because its easily and intuitively to be understood by the players, what the role of an element in general in the game´s lore concept is.
This "pseudo-historical-vehicles" can transport a dense feeling, that is easier to grasp then structures completely made up,
and also easier to justify and fitting to vanilla.

Yes, Nick, thanks for pointing out the naming conventions regarding Roscrea, it completely makes sense if you follow the chain of events there,
and also makes Roscrea more unique and outstanding, i like that new twist of chieftains becoming Jarls, and Clans becoming cults.

However, we will try to portray the bronze and iron age nordic culture as we imagine it both more close to boring real history and Bethesda:
pagan pantheism that is a traditional cultural element embedded in usual clan life, not yet such an abstract concept of ideas that would define the shape
of their primal societies and justify them to call themselfes after singular totems.

I also like the idea very much that you mentioned Nick, to portray a linguistic development from Atmora to Skyrim,
here by giving the "Jarl" an older naming convention. We have been discussing this before in the old forum.
There are 4 reasons against this:
- in Bethesda Lore the term "Jarl" (and "king") is used also in reference to the oldest nord sources.
- We already will have an ancient Atmoran Language, and translations also are never 1:1 in meaning,
so we kind of already have an ancient word of Jarl, without really stating it in English, however we still could do that in ingame literature
- new concepts and naming conventions have to be accepted by the majority of fans, and that needs a few good reasons
- The more new things we introduce, the less "intuitively immersive" the mod gets for the casual player (we do not want to frustrate "usual average" players with the lore,
eventhough, i admit, we would love to add tons of text and theory behind, but i think it should only be added where it supports the main quest. else it is swelling the mod, making it top-heavy for casual players, but i admit that also depends on what kind of people you have in mind when creating content)

thank you for input! its appreciated! 

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Posted

Might I add that in cases of the "oldest Nord sources", I assume you are referring to in-game lore books. If so, those books were most likely written after Ysgramor's landing, meaning they were written for a language that is different from Atmoran. They may have simply called the leaders 'Jarl' in those books because that is the closest word available at the time they were written.

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Posted (edited)

exactly. so, our translation in modern language would be "jarl", however, ofc, in Atmoran language it is not "Jarl" (but a different name with a slightly different meaning,
lost in translation, as it is always the case; but the unique-ness and difference to "modern" Jarls will definitely be pointed out by story, name and design) .
EDIT: so at a deeper look, it will be very clear that they are not exactly the same "Jarls" as you meet them in Skyrim. 

 

Edited by Hannes821

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