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Galandil

06/11/2017

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So you'll probably add spells like telepathy and teleportation in this among other things. And remember Snape turned out to be truly a good guy in the end and the Thalmor guy Ancano proved to be the opposite.

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Telepathy is a cool concept, but beyond story portions I am a bit unsure how it can be used in the game. Could be fun to explore. Levitation is outlawed by the Empire, but I think it could be a bit fun to explore it to a degree. I'd have to nerf it significantly to avoid players walking into area's they otherwise can't reach due to walls(Like Whiterun if you don't pass the gate, there's just a lot of LOD buildings inside). Teleportation spells sounds fun, but it'd have to be fixed locations, many would argue they can fast travel so there's no need but I disagree. It adds a fun quirk and we did have teleportation travel in Morrowind, so why not. A clear-sight spell is something we've considered as well, to allow you to see secret area's, like hidden cave entrances which are otherwise hidden, perhaps illusions are in place to hide a place etc... 

 

I'm actually a bit on the fence about Ancano. Don't get me wrong, he is one of the higher ups of the Thalmor and is by no stretch of the imagination a good guy. However, in the circumstance he found himself in, I couldn't help but feel like he was a bit of a victim of chance. He is sent there to allegedly foster relations with the college, which the Thalmor considers the real power in Winterhold, a nation within a nation. He is not made to feel very welcome by the students of the college, and from what we can gather, the Arch Mage considers his presence there a bit of an annoyance as well. However, Ancano's role in the story is not as cookie-clutter as I thought the first time I played the quest-line. I figured that he saw the Orb and just took it. A bit of a random and desperate action in my opinion, he could've sent word to Summerset, asked for reinforcements to secure the orb, perhaps he could've negotiated it from the college. Perhaps the presence of the Psyjiic's made him nervous and made him do what he did, or perhaps... He went to the Augur of Dunlain. The Augur mentions that he has been down there and spoken with him, and from that I get the impression that the Augur is the one who convinced him to hijack the orb by any means necessary. Ancano definitely wanted to secure it for the Thalmor, upon securing, why would he need relations with the college? But I'd expect a high-ranking official of the Aldmeri Dominion to use a bit more tact, he had no idea what he was throwing himself at, and he must've known that the College would turn on him the moment he'd try. 

I speculate that the Augur may not be a good guy at all, and may have ties to the Great Collapse. This does not in any way justify Ancano's actions, but I do want to go into a bit depth on what Ancano believes, perhaps you could pull pranks on him, steal orders, interact with his bodyguard who otherwise randomly shows up at the end of the labyrinthian. One of the Altmer mages even admit they have a bit of a crush on the guy, I want to build characters I don't just want to wave off Ancano as the bad guy without exploring his beliefs, have him interact as a part of the story before then disposing him. I mean I get it, Thalmor == Bad. Beyond Skyrim did an excellent job in my opinion of portraying the Thalmor. In Bruma you meet two justicars who are overseeing their duties. One of them is set in his beliefs and believe all but altmer are garbage, while the other is far more reasonable. I'd expect Ancano, while rude, to be a bit more intelligent and tactful- I would still have him attempt to hijack the orb thus ending with his demise but I want there to be a puppet-master behind him who's convinced him to do so.

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Telepathy could work slightly similar to Aura Whisper but instead of revealing their Auras, it reveals their thoughts and those thought could be spoken to you as if you were in a conversation with someone, be useful for getting information. You could also use it to take possession of someone mind and make them do things as if you were actually playing that person. Teleportation spells could be used for fixed locations but I also think it could be useful for short range as well, Whirlwind Sprint inspired that. When you revamp the College of Winterhold, make sure it epitomizes magic, like floating rocks and maybe some of that levitation stuff we got at Tel Mithryn to get to those hard to reach places. As for Ancano, what you said might play, but you stated that when he took the orb,  that he was desperate and a victim of chance but he looked power hungry and insane.

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Yes but.. it would create a vast problem when we use it randomly on our adventure. It'd have to have a listener which triggers a change of hue every time the setting changes, for instance. You attack the person. Would likely end up with disable and enabling of a new aura. 

I'd imagine telepathy to be a neat way of adding into the story but otherwise I'm a bit unsure how it can be done, or.. if it should be.

Taking possession of a person is something I've seen in other mods, could be fun, though I shudder at the thought of how many if else statements it'd take to get the NPC reactions right. Something cool to use in a quest though, absolutely. Perhaps we could have a simplistic version. You have to be within a certain range and you can take control of a person if they are in your line of view. You can then attack or run off with that person, but if you go outside the range then the control is broken, or if he dies its broken. Could be a neat trick to get rid of excess bandits, or.. open a door that's locked from the other side.

Short distance teleportation will likely end up with your character being stuck. Unless we do it like they did with the Vampire bat-teleport thing in Dawnguard, that could work and be fun a trick to use in combat too. 

We will epitomize magic definitely. I want to make it a magical story-line, not a: "I drunkenly waddled my way through college, never opening a book- now i'm the principle". 

Indeed, he seemed power hungry and insane, his character before then seemed far more composed and cold. He was always arrogant, but if he wanted the orb so badly why did he wait as long as he did, and why did he go visit the Augur of Dunlain. There's only two possible scenario's I'll accept. Either the Psijiic's made him so nervous that in the end he just decided enough was enough and he'd take it to prevent the Psijiic's getting their hands on it, or- .. He spoke with the Augur, which is confirmed by the Augur Himself when you do speak with him, so we do know this happened either way... And something the augur said compelled him to try and take the orb. Why seek out the augur if he is going to take the orb anyway? ... How did he know about the Augur? If he knew, why would he be curious enough to go down there, and to ask specifically about the orb. 

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I hear you on the Telepathy and Ancano. As for the teleportation spells, I played a game on xbox one called Dishonored 2, I don't know if you heard of it but in the game, my guy was able to use magic and one of his abilities was something called "Blink" which was a short range teleport and when you use Whirlwind Sprint in Skyrim, it allows you to cross a short distance in the blink of an eye and get to places you might not have been able to get to otherwise. You get what I'm saying

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Thanks for the warm welcome! Did not expected to get such a quick response from ya. :)

So this comment still won't be about Winterhold, but a quick response.

Your comment about the goats was really funny. :D But as far as i could understand you, you could see/iamgine more farming-areas but you "just" wanted to fill some empty space. Okay? It's just kinda weird. ^^ It's like: Hey! You wanna some farm animalsfor a medium sized town? Here you have two goats! The Jarl's personal pets! (or something like that :P)

Glad you share the opinion about the bridge-debacle. <3

About the burned-down house: The last time i really played Skyrim is about 3/4 years ago. Sorry that I am not up-to-date with the lore anymore :/ Your explanationsmakes ofc sense then. 

Hm.. i don't knowbut it just feels like Bethesda thought: "Oh! We need a burned-down house for a sad questline!" - "OK!" *placed it* "Done." (And that's it)

 

I am also glad you share thethoughts about the mist and the lanterns. You could underline with it so much! 

 

About Interesting NPC's: maybe i will give it a go. But a Redguard (i guess with Hammerfell-gear?) I don't know man... :/ Tbh i like the idea of your grumpy Nord more.

 

I hope my other ideas with the moss and fish etc weren't too bad/confusing/lame, cause you didn't responded to them. :(

 

Btw: I really like your thoughts about the roads in Skyrim!! That they should feel much more wild. That's why I am no fan of "Lanterns of Skyrim" even if it's a very popular mod.

About the monks-clothes: You want to do a decent change to some of them. Maybe the ones for Dibella too? They are atm just orange ordinary ones. I just fell, and maybe i am wrong, that they should look more ancient greek inspired. 

As far as i could follow, you want to change many things about the college and it's dudes. (imo a great but very time consuming idea) - for myself i am no real mage and the DB and Thief Questlines are one of the best in the vanilla game. But could you and your team maybe take a look at the thiefguild and the "Broken Bottle" - or how it's called - cause imo it has very much potential with the basin and the atmo but it could be improved. Maybe there could be some lol stores who sell and buy stolen stuff. Maybe a dude who sits beside the basin and stares into the derty water. Maybe more idles for the guild-members. The "tavern" feels too lifeless too imo. 

But maybe thats another story. You really have much to do. ^^

Really hope you get all great stuff you want to do done!

I wish everyone a good week! greetings

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Cailan: Oh hey! Sorry! Well the building is shaped in a way that the area would be empty otherwise. To me it sort of makes sense... Morthal has a very unique culture and tribal traditions which does involve sacrificing livestock. It makes sense that the Jarl would therefor want her own select livestock to cater to her needs, where as otherwise there's a risk of livestock being stolen, there's hunger in the winters, or they need to sacrifice over a certain amount and as such put the needs of the people at risk. I also originally wanted to have a religious ceremony area on the other side complete with runestones and other ceremonial objects but I decided against it as I felt it was a bit too much. Then again remove the farm and what your left with is a big walled in longhouse with nothing inside. :P

It certainly feels like that, sadly the NPC's also refer to its location, which makes moving it difficult. What I have done is added a farming area near the house and inn, making the farmhouse feel more appropriate but even so... definitely would've liked to move it.

It really felt off to me as well. Then again, there are books written which refer to outlying cities and villages lacking the bare necessities and Morthal is directly described as to lack a blacksmith. The Redguard himself is pretty well voiced and he has a backstory and reason to be there. So for me it makes sense that "Hey I know my craft, I live here now so now it can benefit you". The fact that he is a Redguard and wears a silly costume is neither here nor here. Though it does feel a bit off, it also makes it more interesting. Though Holds strives to add as many Nords as possible to make Skyrim feel more homogeneous which it should be- finding other races who hold certain positions in society shouldn't be too much of a stretch. Nazeem for instance is a snobby Redguard and his a landowner. 

Didn't we set up fishing nets and such in the city? Cause I could've sworn I did :P As for the moss, honestly.. I have always been put off by city overhauls that make cities feel in an exaggerated way.. a botanical garden. Morthal is pretty far north and as such is covered in a constant winter climate. While moss can grow in cold climates I don't really see it making a nice aesthetic considering the surroundings. :) I'd have to add moss to other area's around Hjaalmarch to make it appropriate which is a bit outside the scope of this mod. Maybe we could make a Moss-plugin if there are many who want one.

I know.. I just don't feel like I am in a un-civilized barbarian Conan-Land if everything feels very neat and clean. Even as Bethesda made them I take odds with as it feels very Follow-The-Yellowbrick-Road. Because the roads use dirt within the bricks there is a lot of surrounding dirt as well which makes the roads feel very broad. I want to make it more like tracks surrounded by grass, and snow or whatever else is appropriate to its surroundings. That way Skyrim can feel a lot less civilized and feel wilder. Making the surrounding ground texture grass or snow or etc.. will also make the roads feel a lot slimmer which I believe will make the world feel a bit bigger.

There are actually various priest-robes on display in the Hall of stories in Skyrim. The area before you use a claw. Dibella priests would wear this: 

tumblr_mv9en202MG1s5saolo10_1280.jpg

 

Dibella was actually worshiped by the Ancient Nords so I don't see why the priests would wear more Imperial themed priest-robes... Unless of course they are affiliated with the Imperial Cult where it would make sense. ... Though the only place there are priests of Dibella is in Markarth which is still fairly Nordic in their beliefs, as far as Holds is concerned.

We naturally also want to add to the other guilds as well, thieves guild also felt very ... un-satisfying. We do want to give the same treatment to all guilds as we're going to give to the College. The college is mostly whats on my mind right now as I'm working on Winterhold and the college quest-line will be very entwined with the city itself. 

Mikiep1031: 

Well Wrenik is pretty adamant in wanting one, and he has convinced me that why not. So yes, we will likely have an arena in Solitude. Location will be behind the inn. :D

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I bet solitude will be like the imperial city and windhelm will be like kvatch in terms of the arenas.

When you revamp the guilds and their questlines, will we have to do it all over again or is it just something to look forward to when we start a new game because I did all of them already.

Edited by mikiep1031

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17 hours ago, Galandil said:

Cailan: Oh hey! Sorry! Well the building is shaped in a way that the area would be empty otherwise. To me it sort of makes sense... Morthal has a very unique culture and tribal traditions which does involve sacrificing livestock. It makes sense that the Jarl would therefor want her own select livestock to cater to her needs, where as otherwise there's a risk of livestock being stolen, there's hunger in the winters, or they need to sacrifice over a certain amount and as such put the needs of the people at risk. I also originally wanted to have a religious ceremony area on the other side complete with runestones and other ceremonial objects but I decided against it as I felt it was a bit too much. Then again remove the farm and what your left with is a big walled in longhouse with nothing inside. :P

It certainly feels like that, sadly the NPC's also refer to its location, which makes moving it difficult. What I have done is added a farming area near the house and inn, making the farmhouse feel more appropriate but even so... definitely would've liked to move it.

It really felt off to me as well. Then again, there are books written which refer to outlying cities and villages lacking the bare necessities and Morthal is directly described as to lack a blacksmith. The Redguard himself is pretty well voiced and he has a backstory and reason to be there. So for me it makes sense that "Hey I know my craft, I live here now so now it can benefit you". The fact that he is a Redguard and wears a silly costume is neither here nor here. Though it does feel a bit off, it also makes it more interesting. Though Holds strives to add as many Nords as possible to make Skyrim feel more homogeneous which it should be- finding other races who hold certain positions in society shouldn't be too much of a stretch. Nazeem for instance is a snobby Redguard and his a landowner. 

Didn't we set up fishing nets and such in the city? Cause I could've sworn I did :P As for the moss, honestly.. I have always been put off by city overhauls that make cities feel in an exaggerated way.. a botanical garden. Morthal is pretty far north and as such is covered in a constant winter climate. While moss can grow in cold climates I don't really see it making a nice aesthetic considering the surroundings. :) I'd have to add moss to other area's around Hjaalmarch to make it appropriate which is a bit outside the scope of this mod. Maybe we could make a Moss-plugin if there are many who want one.

I know.. I just don't feel like I am in a un-civilized barbarian Conan-Land if everything feels very neat and clean. Even as Bethesda made them I take odds with as it feels very Follow-The-Yellowbrick-Road. Because the roads use dirt within the bricks there is a lot of surrounding dirt as well which makes the roads feel very broad. I want to make it more like tracks surrounded by grass, and snow or whatever else is appropriate to its surroundings. That way Skyrim can feel a lot less civilized and feel wilder. Making the surrounding ground texture grass or snow or etc.. will also make the roads feel a lot slimmer which I believe will make the world feel a bit bigger.

There are actually various priest-robes on display in the Hall of stories in Skyrim. The area before you use a claw. Dibella priests would wear this: 

tumblr_mv9en202MG1s5saolo10_1280.jpg

 

Dibella was actually worshiped by the Ancient Nords so I don't see why the priests would wear more Imperial themed priest-robes... Unless of course they are affiliated with the Imperial Cult where it would make sense. ... Though the only place there are priests of Dibella is in Markarth which is still fairly Nordic in their beliefs, as far as Holds is concerned.

We naturally also want to add to the other guilds as well, thieves guild also felt very ... un-satisfying. We do want to give the same treatment to all guilds as we're going to give to the College. The college is mostly whats on my mind right now as I'm working on Winterhold and the college quest-line will be very entwined with the city itself. 

Mikiep1031: 

Well Wrenik is pretty adamant in wanting one, and he has convinced me that why not. So yes, we will likely have an arena in Solitude. Location will be behind the inn. :D

First of all: Sorry for my english... was kinda in a rush but wanted to answer you as quickly as possible!!! 

Now to your text:

About point 1: Np, sir! No need to feel sorry! Okay, your explanation makes sense now for me. Rituals... interesting. :o About the "steal-part": Wouldn't it makes much more sense then, to place them inside of a building, like you did with the cows in Falkreath? Just pointing that out.

About point 2: >>It certainly feels like that, sadly the NPC's also refer to its location, which makes moving it difficult. What I have done is added a farming area near the house and inn, making the farmhouse feel more appropriate but even so... definitely would've liked to move it.<< You have my feelings. But it's fine with me then, thank you for the insight! If you do something, you will do it the right way, i am very certain about that. :)

About point 3: >>...there are books written which refer to outlying cities and villages lacking the bare necessities and Morthal is directly described as to lack a blacksmith. The Redguard himself is pretty well voiced and he has a backstory and reason to be there.<< So beside the fact, i didn't know that there should be a lack of a blacksmith,  it's kinda contradictory that there is a blacksmith then - even if he has his own story. But maybe in the far future i can, at least, let him look rough and grumpy. :P Btw: a female blacksmith, like the one in whiterun would ve been cool aswell. A grumpy one ofc. ;) 

Ah and Nazeem... how in the world could i forget this awesome, smooth person?! Hm.. maybe, cause i am not very often in the Cloud-District...

 

About point 4: Yeah, i saw the fishing nets!!! (and already honored this work btw :P ) but i just felt like there could be a bit more - at least in the boats. :/ The moss-part: Okay, okay. I didn't thought so far tbh. And no, i dont want you to do this much extra work. You have already much to do. About the "botanical-garden-aspect": imo that's a bit far fetched. There are two things that make you instant sympathetic to me:  1. You disliked the "just place more clutter and trees in the cities" - part and 2. You disliked exaggareated anime-girls in a dark, cold fantasy-game. Which, honestly, makes me kinda love you, cause i HATE the amount of constant sexy boob-anime-girls as followers or whatever... 

But a bit of moss (which has different colours btw :P ) wouldnt be instant a "cluttered garden of trees". Just my opinion, but your explanation and the connected amount of work (which is ofc superfluous) is more than fine with me. :)

 About point 5: Conan-Land - YES! It's such a good idea. Tbh i was pretty surprised when i saw your massive list of other things you want to do BESIDE the immense city-overhaul project. :o:P

About point 6: Okay, so Dibella's monks wear clothes which refer to moths... (jk) Yeah.. emmm, the one with the ancient-greek clothes was very far fetched, and i didn't mean to copy them. I just thought of a more female style (and NO, not anime-style!) But then, ofc, i more than accept the current one. Thank you.

The Guild-one i will comment later. I dont want that my comments are THAT big. And i think it's better for you and the others here too. ^^

 

 

 

Edited by Cailan

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So about the guilds: one part of me is very, very happy that you give them some love. (imo the most mods for them are kinda lame) but the other part is scared you want to do too much, and you wont finish it (or just in the far future). srsly you are, imo, one of the best skyrim modders.  and your ideas are gorgeous. but how you want to manage all this? (thats my pessimist speaking)

i dont know if i should post some of my ideas, cause you do your own things and this in a very good and lorefriendly way.

about the moss: forget it. was a really dumb idea of mine. dont know why i got this idea. didnt want to annoy you with this. :/

Winterhold looks sick i love the new mix between Whiterun and Windhelm. Will Winterhold  get a blacksmith? :P And what else? i could see following buildings (if there isnt anything mentioned which speak against it): some kind of stable (horses and/or pirmary goats - goats just fit the location more than cows imo),  an alchemist (there my old idea was a female orc - cause it seems kinda missing), at least one fisherman ( my old idea was an old/middle aged nord with a female argonien was wife :P), and a little harbour with one littel warhouse and small guardhouse would fit aswell and would be - imo - a cool addition. but nothing exaggerated.  the gates of the town could be (maybe) just a lil bit more impressiv. I really like the slender towers and that you kept the darker theme. :)

greetings 

Edit: Btw would be awesome if you would share your thoughts about the guilds. And a question: around 2012 i tried to mod myself some more easy things like: trying to "mod" Morthal, Solitude and Winterhold (adding houses, ppl and stuff); trying to mod Dawnstar Sanctuary and the Broken Bottle and the - imo - kinda ulgy inner-circle members of the companions. I learned to change faces,  place stuff, give them a daily routines (packages), make merchants and houses (imo one of the hardest things for me cause of the cells and the doors to connect them corretly). To place markers was easy tho, but to make guards patrolling and warriors training on the test dummies didnt work for me.... a big lesson was to not forget to Navmesh things (pretty furstrating lesson tbh) but the biggest problem: all my work i did, i did in 6-10 hours (with little breaks). why? - and here is one of my biggest questions:  cause i am dumb and dont know to this very moment how to safe files and work on them. all the time i tried it, i got too many folders and my PC crashed.

Would be awesome if you would give a pleb like me some serious answers about this stuff. (cause maybe i can come to it again some day ^^)

 

Edited by Cailan

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I don't mind implementing a female blacksmith but since my aim is to make Holds as compatible with great mods such as Interesting NPC's I fear we're forced to cut our losses and accept that there is a guy from Hammerfell who is brags about curved swords for the time being. He is not a bad character to be honest and while I was at first a little put off by the presence of like.. half the town now being Redguard, his quirky personality and backstory melds itself quite well into the world. We could make it so that if the Redguard was to have an ... "Accident". :ninja: A female Nord Blacksmith would make her way to Morthal to take over his shop, this is actually a feature I want to explore for all of the shopkeepers to have at least one possible person who takes over, with a full name and backstory. Seeing as for instance: Whiterun's General Store owner Belethor was to die, as well as his assistant, who is going to run his store? If there's nobody- Will the shop get boarded up and infested with cobwebs? Will someone else move in and take over the store. Inconsequential NPC's did this for Adrian's Warmaidens store if both herself and her husband passed away, their apprentice would take over. However I'd prefer to have someone the player hasn't met yet would spawn somewhere far away and then make their way towards the town and take over after some time has passed. It will make the world feel a lot more fresh and alive, and it would avoid a potential apprentice from dying alongside their tutor. 

 

On 16.1.2018 at 1:40 PM, Cailan said:

Ah and Nazeem... how in the world could i forget this awesome, smooth person?! Hm.. maybe, cause i am not very often in the Cloud-District...

 

 

 

 

1bsni82id74z.jpg

 

 

 

I don't expect Holds to be finished anytime soon, it'll be a continuous project that I will be polishing likely for many years yet. However that doesn't mean I can't release what I finish as I finish it. Holds itself was released quite prematurely hence why I'm still working on it :P When it comes to good guild and quest idea's, well... I don't see it as realistic that I'll release all at once, but a few at a time. Say in 2019 I manage to release the Crafters Guild and the extension to the Winterhold Quest Line, the latter being a really big quest extension. Then that is what I've focused on for that time, then I start working on something else. My goal is to create a foundation first that I can add content to, first the level-design bit which is what I'm working on now, then the dialogue and perhaps a handful of side-quests before then I begin adding the larger concept quests 1-10 at a time. 

 

Winterhold will of course get a blacksmith though I do not want to add too many new characters initially when the player arrives. I want this to take the Helgen Reborn route of taking it a step at a time, with the last portion of the extension being the final stacked stone of the city. Introducing Blacksmith's who come from far away and thus opening up their own sidequests and so on will be an interesting route to take. I've also seen that this is the same route other mod authors have taken when restoring Winterhold :)

I'll post some screenshots ASAP from what I have on Winterhold so far and explain what I want to do to each area there.

 

On 26.1.2018 at 2:11 AM, Cailan said:

Edit: Btw would be awesome if you would share your thoughts about the guilds. And a question: around 2012 i tried to mod myself some more easy things like: trying to "mod" Morthal, Solitude and Winterhold (adding houses, ppl and stuff); trying to mod Dawnstar Sanctuary and the Broken Bottle and the - imo - kinda ulgy inner-circle members of the companions. I learned to change faces,  place stuff, give them a daily routines (packages), make merchants and houses (imo one of the hardest things for me cause of the cells and the doors to connect them corretly). To place markers was easy tho, but to make guards patrolling and warriors training on the test dummies didnt work for me.... a big lesson was to not forget to Navmesh things (pretty furstrating lesson tbh) but the biggest problem: all my work i did, i did in 6-10 hours (with little breaks). why? - and here is one of my biggest questions:  cause i am dumb and dont know to this very moment how to safe files and work on them. all the time i tried it, i got too many folders and my PC crashed.

Would be awesome if you would give a pleb like me some serious answers about this stuff. (cause maybe i can come to it again some day ^^)

 

Hm. I'm not really sure what your asking here. If what your doing is correct? Do you want tips on modding? How to save files?
Navmesh is always hard to get into at first, it feels really tedious but you get used to it :P
 

Saving files is very simple, you simply click the save plugin icon with the floppy disc. :D easy peasy. Your work is stored as an .esp file. In cases where you want your work to be a parent for other work, simply convert your filetype to a .esm filetype so it can be a master. 

I'd suggest checking out DarkFox127's video's on modding, they are fairly easy to understand and he goes through the most simple stuff all the way to the more advanced scripted stuff. Can't suggest his channel enough as its by watching his video's I learned how to mod. I'd suggest creating a dummy project to begin with and simply follow his video's step by step. I would also suggest to favorite some of them in case you need to go back to refresh on how to stuff.

 

 

 

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I apologize for not being as active as I used to be on this forum but I've been hard at work on Winterhold. In fact I've been a little obsessed with getting it right and I am still not 100% satisfied with the design. I'll post below a bundle of screenshots of Winterhold in its restored state, these are taken in the Pre-Destruction Worldspace and still lack interiors and navmesh. I've decorated the exterior though I did notice that I forgot to decorate the area outside of the barn and the area surrounding the palace. Winterhold feels huge, though is actually slightly smaller then Falkreath. I want to give it a very overwhelming towering stone structure feeling while at the same time giving it the familiar Nordic Longhouse feeling, which is a difficult combination. I feel like I've found a good combination. I wanted to avoid making it feel like Solitude covered in snow. 

I'll be creating the interiors for the restored next which will be accessible when the Dragonborn goes back in time and ventures into Winterhold just hours before the storm pummels the shore, hence the entire Palace district remains and the buildings are still standing tall. Winterhold's dock district will be unavailable and frankly I think I'm going to cut it out all together and still only have it mentioned. This is because the absolutely essential mod called Immersive College of  Winterhold adds a cave system beneath the Midden where the Player can find ruins of the old dock district. Not only does this district feel very different from how I'm designing Winterhold(Provided I can get a permission from the original author I will rectify this); but looking at the surrounding area, I'd really hate to swap out the wildlife and change the location to suit a small or large docking area. I think having ships sailing to the beach beneath the college is a pretty neat concept and it will give the long stretching path up to the city in the north some actual use. I do not think this requires a lot of buildings to be present. Instead I'm going to opt for the spell simply restoring the upper portion and the dock being lost forever. :whistlelt:

The screenshots will include some weirdly shaped tree's. These are from the old LOD from the Tamriel world space, this will be fixed before release.

What I still want to add are the dragonheads mantling the roofs and some remaining decorations.

 

Screenshots below:

 

 

Southern Gate Entrance:

 

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The Guard Barracks which is used by the Jarl as a Longhouse after the destruction.

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The Frozen Hearth:

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The Winterhold Livestock District:

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Kraldar's Estate:

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Big Estate:

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Northern Gate:

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City Overview:

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Merchant District:

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Temple of Jhunal:

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Palace District:

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Skyline Overview:

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Please give me as much feedback as possible as it will greatly help me approve my work!

 

 

 

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Im a bit unsure on the town wall, i get that the terrain provides most of the defenses of the city, but from the road the wall looks like just a glorified fence. Having it extended from the mountains to the sea cliff would look much more defensible and very imposing when its ruined. Otherwise the only problem i can see is that where the buildings meet the ground it looks a little to flat, maybe add some snow or raise the terrain around the base?

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Good work on Winterhold, so far. Plenty of good aspects being added that help flesh out the city, but I must point out a few of my own concerns. I hate to nitpick about these details, but I think these have to be addressed so that we can deliver a memorable part of Skyrim properly.

As I have seen in many of the Project's settlements, you prefer to go for an organized, grid-like pattern when laying out the buildings. Understandably, this helps to save space where other buildings could be placed and allows for more structures and people to be put in a smaller area. The problem with this, however, is that city planning is never usually that neat and simple. Oftentimes, buildings were placed wherever land was available and often conformed to the environment it was in, whether in Medieval Times or today. That is perhaps what makes a city intriguing; the chaotic nature of the city’s layout makes it feel vibrant and alive while avoiding a strict, dull, conforming environment that stifles its inhabitants to death. I’d say imitate Whiterun and Dawnstar with their twisting roads and pathways and avoid the gridline at all costs.

Rasilon already pointed this out, but I will reiterate it; Winterhold needs walls. The capital is far removed from any other signs of civilization, with the closest being Windhelm, and being so under-populated makes it a prime target to bandits and other undesirables. The city cannot be properly defended without a form of defense, which makes a wall necessary.

Additionally, the Jarl’s Palace seems a bit too accessible to anyone groundside. A common pattern we see with most hold capitals is that a wall is built around the epicenter of the city, sometimes with multiple partitions to bog down any would-be invaders. Having the Palace serve as part of the wall, from what it appears to be, bodes ill for the Jarl in a time of crisis. It needs to be heavily fortified and in an area where there is only one predictable path for an invader to go through. Whether it be placed on the mountainside or in some other inaccessible spot is up for debate, though I’m heavily biased for placing it on the nearby ridge, to be honest.

This somewhat ties into the first contention. If those buildings are added into the game as they are, it means that someone has to occupy that space. The question is, other than the current residents, who? Will they be NPCs that are currently in the mod or will they be migrants moving into Winterhold? Additionally, can we rationalize the sudden migration of a bunch of people to a city that was on its last legs the last time anyone checked on it and with no form of commerce to boot? Additionally, should we have that many buildings that close to the cliff face? I am sure people have not forgotten the Great Collapse so easily and would be quite wary of living so close to the edge of a ravine.

On a side note, I found some cool drawings while randomly searching for pictures on Winterhold. Somebody had drawn their interpretation of a rebuilt version of the city that includes a map layout and a view from the sea, and after seeing it, I’ve become enamored with the concept. Admittedly, some parts that are seen on the map cannot be done without heavily editing the world space, and other parts may be… strange additions, to put it lightly, but I think that this is worth consideration in how a rebuilt Winterhold should look.

Winterhold Map 4E214

Winterhold Map 4E214

The Odmi Collection: Arrival at Winterhold

 

The Odmi Collection: Arrival at Winterhold

 

Edited by Gahrotgoltfus
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I would like to put in my two cents on this, first of all, whoever created those pictures above deserves a pat on the back, they look promising and seem to be detailed. Second of all, the first time I played Skyrim and I first looked at Winterhold, it was barely a town much less a city and more like a ruin and I actually compared to the city of Kvatch in Oblivion because it was a ruin too. Third of all,  I honestly think after Winterhold you should probably focus more on the cities that don’t have walls like Falkreath, Morthal, and Dawnstar and fix that as well because when I first saw them when playing Skyrim they looked more like large towns than actual cities because they had no walls and I also remember that every city in Oblivion even the ruined city Kvatch had walls which made them seem like actual cities but that’s my opinion Galandil.

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