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simtam

Sync-up topic with Main Quest Plait project

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Hi, Galandil

A little heads-up on how and why something related to the Main Quest will be changed by my Main Quest Plait mod. Most of it is non-conflicting, like the 3dnpc quests usually are, but a few touches to the main quest flow are considered (that is, I started looking into possible spliced dialogue). The big follow-up is done in such a way that after beating the vanilla MQ and going to sleep, player character has a dream that takes place in Sovngarde, meets a ghost of King Wulfharth there who does some lore exposition on the 3rd Song of King Wulfharth and the Ghost of Alduin, who turns out to be the next opponent to fight (or debate - it's supposed to be the same for the Dov...).

Definitely I'm going to retain the ability to skip Blades subplot and do it later, post-MQ. In that case, the dialogue will be altered, Delphine and Esbern will be looking for a way to "stop the dragons", without naming any dragon in particular. There might be some dialogue tweaks with Greybeards leading up the Throat of The World - especially if it will no longer be gated by the knowledge of the Prophecy. A big question is what will happen with the Season Unending if Esbern (and Delphine) won't attend it (assuming it's technically possible) - maybe killing Paarthy will grant the player character the working knowledge of Od-Ah-Viing shout.

Speaking of killing Paarthy, there might be a tweak of dialogues in case player kills Paarthy before speaking about it with the Blades (possible but unlikely in vanilla, easier to pull off with my mod). Also, possibly Blades won't ask you to kill him before you express that you wants to (at least until the Season Unending). Another idea is that Paarthy won't be essential before the Alduin's Bane vision, and killing him will simply trigger the Time Wound scene, no Elder Scroll necessary. And killing Odahviing while he's trapped could grant the knowledge where to fly to, still the player would have to secure a dragon to fly there.

Is that all? I guess... There's going to be a way to avoid being Dragonborn for the civil war questline, and there'll be some shortcuts for getting Dragonstone and some other vanilla main quest busywork, but these features possibly will be implemented without changing as much vanilla forms as the changes mentioned above.

Let me know if you need any help with making Holds compatible with cut content civil war overhauls (come to think of it, it might include the Second Great War mod as well).

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On 22.2.2018 at 11:02 PM, simtam said:

A little heads-up on how and why something related to the Main Quest will be changed by my Main Quest Plait mod. Most of it is non-conflicting, like the 3dnpc quests usually are, but a few touches to the main quest flow are considered (that is, I started looking into possible spliced dialogue). The big follow-up is done in such a way that after beating the vanilla MQ and going to sleep, player character has a dream that takes place in Sovngarde, meets a ghost of King Wulfharth there who does some lore exposition on the 3rd Song of King Wulfharth and the Ghost of Alduin, who turns out to be the next opponent to fight (or debate - it's supposed to be the same for the Dov...).

This was actually not such a bad idea. I'd love to incorporate some dream sequences, as long as they can fit the greater picture of whats going in there and then in the story and not feel jumbled together and random. Otherwise we could always incorporate side-quests into the main quest itself, I have already a few idea's for main story side-quests such as companion quests and others. Beside that I had also thought that one of the shouts/abilities you learn allow you to manipulate time at certain places where time is fragile. Such as say... The outbreak of the Dragon Wars, Saarthal etc... These need not necessarily tie into the main quest, but could be fun to explore non the less. 

 

On 22.2.2018 at 11:02 PM, simtam said:

Definitely I'm going to retain the ability to skip Blades subplot and do it later, post-MQ. In that case, the dialogue will be altered, Delphine and Esbern will be looking for a way to "stop the dragons", without naming any dragon in particular. There might be some dialogue tweaks with Greybeards leading up the Throat of The World - especially if it will no longer be gated by the knowledge of the Prophecy. A big question is what will happen with the Season Unending if Esbern (and Delphine) won't attend it (assuming it's technically possible) - maybe killing Paarthy will grant the player character the working knowledge of Od-Ah-Viing shout.

I had thought to approach this a little differently. Your given the quest in the usual way, the Blades know about Parthurnax and want him dead, you then have the option to go and kill Parthurnax or disregard the blades. Seeing as the Blades will have a more active role against the dragons, something you've built. A private army that actually carries some assemblance of features and power in the land, it will not be an easy choice. Though I suspect most, like myself will want to spare Parthurnax because, whatever he has done he wishes to atone for that and help the Dragonborn. I want there therefor to be a bit of a shock with Parthurnax being killed later in the story by Alduin. This way your feelings have been hardened for the dragon, but its taken by your sworn enemy. A bit of a worn out trope, but good all the same. If you however have taken out Parthurnax yourself, I think the story should change, but to what degree I haven't thought of yet.

Still, I like the idea of going in your own direction and having the story shape itself around the players choices, rather then it being linear. :) 

 

On 22.2.2018 at 11:02 PM, simtam said:

Is that all? I guess... There's going to be a way to avoid being Dragonborn for the civil war questline, and there'll be some shortcuts for getting Dragonstone and some other vanilla main quest busywork, but these features possibly will be implemented without changing as much vanilla forms as the changes mentioned above.

Let me know if you need any help with making Holds compatible with cut content civil war overhauls (come to think of it, it might include the Second Great War mod as well).

Oh? Your the author of that mod? I would appreciate the help :) But I am also thinking of making my own civil war addition with Holds which will follow a very story-driven narrative.

 

Would love to have our mods compatible with one another. Main quest and civil war. Definitely something we should strive towards! Cheers!

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Not an author of Second Great War, but yes, their city battles also stem from the cut content civil war battles, and they seem to use the same respawn markers, so moving respawn markers would likely affect them as well. Which could be used to move the battle to outside the city walls (Holds adds pretty solid city walls to Falkreath, and Dawnstar also poses a problem to soldiers AI). But a more natural approach would be to have a section of walls and gates in two states: normal, and for battle (walls damaged, gates opened, ...) attached to some enable-parent marker, so that during battle the NPCs could run freely all over the place without getting stuck. The major sieges have such markers defined for all the fires and clutter, unfortunately minor siege battles don't have them, so it might be tricky to detect them.

Concerning main quest and civil war, since they are somewhat intertwined in Skyrim, I am going to release content split in modules, based on relation with the civil war code, among others. So, more or less in the order of release, they are going to be

* a "Message To Whiterun" overhaul - removing dependency of Civil War on being Dragonborn, having Balgruuf join Stormcloaks, ...

* an unrelated adventure that makes Stonehills a cooler place

* Main Quest Dialogue Overhaul - the "overhaul" being mostly adding options "I want to kill you (Kill)" which makes that NPC no more essential, and "I want to meet your leader (Persuade)" for Arngeir, and dealing with the consequences. Kill too many important NPCs, you might find it troublesome to pursue Alduin in the end. (Also more civil war options during the peace talks quest. And the "find N dragon masks to fight Alduin" might end up a configurable feature here as well, as a bonus content that won't be voiced by splicing vanilla dialogue).

* a module about Giants, mostly the adventure that gives a player yet another way to pursue Alduin, but also the cut content civil war mission about a giant harassing supply lines

* two or more adventure modules that are less related to the main quest (but maybe more to the civil war)

* the post-MQ follow up quests, perhaps split in two modules

* to conclude, perhaps, the adventure that starts in the beginning in Helgen - and few missing bits and pieces that might be better done after merging all of the above.

So the heads-up that I am talking about is mostly this "MQDO". Seeing as it is a dialogue overhaul, it may be quite easily made configurable by cutting away some of the options as needed.

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