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I thought it was about time we started a thread for Skingrad, so we can start having ideas form.

I don't know a lot about the plans for Skingrad that are already in the works, but we can have a cetralized group discussion of everything here.

Since I'm sure that Skingrad will be keep it's lucrative wine businesses, here's some art of Tuscany from AC II.

post-3744-0-10787000-1400879211_thumb.jp

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Interesting question that was not (as far as I know) ever fully settled: is Hasildor still around?  I remember a while back that there was a suggestion that he could have faked his own death in the early 4th Era, as soon as his long life started to become suspicious, and has been secretly ruling the city from the shadows ever since, but I'm not sure if that was ever formally adopted.

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I liked the idea that was tossed around that he has ended up building a large vampire clan of his own, taking in the renegade and solitary vampires to protect the people of Cyrodiil, and now the Order is starting to consider him a major threat to their well organized and established place as the ruling clan. 

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Nothing has been formally adopted with Hasildor. He probably would have started ruling through proxies long before the Great War, so if the Thalmor deposed whoever was in charge at that time, his official link to Skingrad could have been severed. He hates other vampires, so I doubt he would be interested in creating a vampire clan. Though, he might have fallen in with other vampires due to circumstance.

Whatever we do with Hasildor, I don't think it would affect the look or tone of the city.

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There's a quest idea then. Draw Hassildor out of exile to depose the local Thalmor puppet, or kill him for the new Count, in return for Skingrads support in SoSK. Of course, the player would have to grapple with a few other issues - is it right to place what is effectively a supernatural monster in charge of a city? Perhaps the Count is doing a good job, despite being told what to do by the Elves? Why kill Hassildor for the new Count if he's living in isolation, and not hurting anyone? How exactly would you go about keeping up the charade if Janus did retake power? It could be very interesting.

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I wasn't thinking that Hassildor wanted to take on his own clan. It just kind of happened, that he tried to stop some vampires from falling to their primal urges. Perhaps he tried to stop a vampire loose in Skingrad, and it got away turning several good people that he had seen grow up in all of his years as count. Rather than killing them, he tried to make them follow his path. And overtime he amassed his own clan of vampires that simply don't want to live like other vampires. It could be an interesting questline. He has no wish to rule over this clan, but he can't just leave them to their own devices. In a way he's trapped himself into this situation. 

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I'm picturing vine yard farms around the northern half of the city, just outside the walls (think Whiterun). Maybe the central road under the city is now a small market strip? Definitely a bridge connecting the castle to the actual town. Sound good? Edit: added third part of city, I felt it fits in pretty well.

First draft

post-5363-0-64928300-1414112556_thumb.pn

Edited by EridaniNovus
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In case anyone wonders, this is what is new from oblivion in Eridani's first draft:

post-5137-0-19687700-1414114923_thumb.jp

Green - New Vineyards/farms

Blue - New structures

Red - Low area/canyon/ not new just to point it out

Also there are a few small shops in between the two original districts.

This layout will make this one of the largest cities in Cyrodiil, with at least 40 houses inside the walls. Not a bad thing just something to watch out for. Also, we'd have to look at our height map for the Eastern city district, as in Oblivion it was pretty steep. 

Looking good otherwise.

[Edit] Also the two new buildings in the southern district are in the middle of the graveyard.

Edited by Argor nash35

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In case anyone wonders, this is what is new from oblivion in Eridani's first draft:

sk4e.jpg

Green - New Vineyards/farms

Blue - New structures

Red - Low area/canyon/ not new just to point it out

Also there are a few small shops in between the two original districts.

This layout will make this one of the largest cities in Cyrodiil, with at least 40 houses inside the walls. Not a bad thing just something to watch out for. Also, we'd have to look at our height map for the Eastern city district, as in Oblivion it was pretty steep.

Looking good otherwise.

[Edit] Also the two new buildings in the southern district are in the middle of the graveyard.

Thanks for the feedback. Should I decrease the size of the new district? Definitely remove the new house in graveyard. I like to think that the east district was build before the war, it probably would have taken decades to level out that slope and devolp on it. Edited by EridaniNovus

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Can I ask.

Why not have hassildor still as the count?

People already believed he was a powerful sorcerer he could easily has manipulated people into believing he was immortal.

That and no one ever saw him to begin with.

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I like the idea for the market on the dividing street, additional farmlands, and additional homes in the old city walls (I would suggest keeping them lower class residences and maybe not more than 3-4 at that, its cramped in there, and I regularly got lost in Oblivion. That usually doesn't happen to me.), but I think the idea for the east district should be restricted either to only a couple rich noble families' estates, some sort of public building(s) like an amphitheatre or, if we go with that plan, some institutions important to a thalmor puppet government. Or a memorial to the purportedly deceased Hassildor. Make it a pleasant surprise when you find him alive and well later. :P

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Ah yes, a Thalmor Emabssy and the Hassildor memorial (whether he is still around or not) are musts for the East district. There should be no shops in the East district as well, though, maybe one of the higher class houses there could house a group of independent mages who call themselves a guild but are not recognized (similar to the order of virtuous blood in Oblivion, but mages, not vampire hunters, and they are trainers). Two houses could just be regular nobles, one of which could own part of the Surlie brother's vineyards, due to an old family deal, but now they don't contribute, they just profit and the actual Surlie family wants out (quest).

I doubt there would be an ampitheater due to the proximity to Kvatch's arena/theater and the Nirn theater. There could also be a new building for a "mercenary" group, or Ex legionaires and their "sons", in the North district who are actually a bunch of new legionaires disguised in case of a new war.

By the way, we should keep currently planning as though we are making an East district, but just be aware that the land may not work in the way we would like.

Edited by Argor nash35
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I was looking at the architecture in Skingrad, and I think we should go at this like a city that is like a gothic French Quarter/ French colonial architecture that was built in Tuscany. The way I feel about Cyrodiil is that it is the population center of Tamriel, obviously with the Imperial City being the biggest on the continent, but Colovia and the Niben both have their own city too. For the Nibenese, it's Leyawiin, for the Colovians, it's Skingrad. Each city has its own unique flavor, but these three in particular are like Vanilla, Chocolate, and Strawberry, like a triumvirate of culture. Colovia was called the Colovian Estates, so lets make it so there are actual estates.

That new area that EridaniNovus added could be these powerful mansion homes of land owning nobles, the ones that run the vinelands of Colovia. The southern section is full of the poor, and some of the descendants of refugees of the Great War. While the northern district is the middle class and economic center of the city. Where the big business of the western half of the province is done. There could be a banking center here, that handles the estates' money (The big bosses get theirs done in the IC), a building that runs the trade routes in Colovia (Something they would have to worry about, The Nibenese have the Niben), and a Dominion Embassy that deals with inter-empire trade.

And if we do have Hassildor back, what if the puppet of the Thalmor was actually being used as a puppet by Hassildor to manipulate the Thalmor in Skingrad. With the count of Skingrad being a loyal servant to Hassildor.

Edited by Orion the Above Average
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All of this depends on whether or not people also want to go with the other popular idea from the old days, which was that the County of Skingrad is now held by one of the Medes.  Basically, everyone had their own, incompatible ideas about Skingrad, with the result that everyone remembers different aspects of proposed storylines that don't add up together into a coherent whole.

We need to get a final decision made on this before we can progress further, so here is (from what I can tell) a "menu" of our current options:

(1) Hassildor is still Count.  Nobody cares that he's a vampire.  IMO this raises too many questions that we'd be obliged to address about the status of vampires in Cyrodiil.

(2) Hassildor is officially dead and still a "shadow" Count, with the ruling council of the city paying lip service to the new Count (who may or may not be a Mede or a Thalmor sympathiser), whilst secretly following his advice, as they have been for centuries.

(3) As above, but the new Count is in on it too, (and may or may not also be a Mede or a Thalmor sympathiser)

(4) Hassildor is officially dead but still alive and no longer in power, but still hangs around the city out of nostalgia and sometimes intervenes.  The current ruler of the city is either a Mede, or a Thalmor sympathiser, or both.

And regarding the other vampires:

(1) Hassildor is now a member of the Order in good standing, and is helping in some way with their agenda.

(2) Hassildor has set up his own bloodline and is now actively contesting the Order for control of the area.

(3) Hassildor has taken in a few "lone wolf" vampires like himself, and is now lumbered with concealing their existence both from the people of Skingrad and the Order.

(4) Hassildor is still on his own and cares more for looking after his own city than vampiric politics.

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